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Nzgamer Review Of Endless Ocean An Embarassment


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#1 peterc

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 01:14 PM

Well, I was on metacritic today, and noticed Endless Ocean had dropped a percentage point, and I thought: gee whiz, what kind of ignorant idiot gave it a low score. And low behold... it was none other than NZ gamer. Being a NZer myself I felt somewhat compelled to leave a comment...

So here goes:

Endless Ocean has been gathering excellent reviews from virtually every professional games magazine/website, praising its presentation, graphics, atmosphere and style. 8/10 from IGN; 88/100 from NgamerUK, 8/10 from 1up, 75% from palgn etc etc Here's the difference between them, and the odd idiot who gives it a low score: they ACTUALLY engage with the game on the level of what it's trying to achieve. I'm not going to go in to all the reasons why it's a good game, you can go and check it out for yourselves.

But matters of taste aside, there can be no doubt that Endless Ocean IS graphically very attractive for the wii - the animations in particular are excellent, and the fact that Liam O'Connor gives it a 3 out of ten is, by any standards, unreasonable.

Now, normally I wouldn't care, but the Wii has been having a rough time with its 3rd party games, in part because of poor reviewers who are unable to engage with games that try to do something different. It's a real pity, and a personal embarassment to me that NZGamer is showing itself to be on the forefront of ignorance in this regard. There's only one review on the metacritic list that goes lower than NZGamers. Take a look at the comments people have attached to that one and you'll see the level of feeling from people about bad reviewing in this regard.

Next time, why not try and ACTUALLY engage with the game on the level of what it's trying to achieve. Otherwise it's like rating a romantic film based on whether it's a successful action adventure.

Rant off.
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#2 Ubercuber

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 01:25 PM

Hell hath no fury like a fanboy scorned.

Im glad someone can voice their opinion in reviews here. So he didnt like it, big deal. Why should he have to agree with all the other reviewers? "Oh I really didnt like this game, but IGN gave it an 8/10....so Ill give it an 8 too!"

If 1 review can sway someone to buy or not buy a game, they need some help.



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#3 Koopa18

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 01:26 PM

yeah.. its all been said and done in another topic.

Hes a Douche bla bla bla.

I think its stupid that people who are in their 20s or 30s will play a game designed for children and then complain about it and give it a bad score, such as Yoshi's Story. but what can ya do. Peoples opinion is their opinion and argueing with them just starts fights and they try to defend their honour.

i say you write a Reader review for Heavenly Sword and give it about a 2 or 3 if you disagree with him that much :evil:
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#4 Khann

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 01:57 PM

I completely agree.
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#5 Munkah

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 02:16 PM

yeah.. its all been said and done in another topic.

Hes a Douche bla bla bla.

I think its stupid that people who are in their 20s or 30s will play a game designed for children and then complain about it and give it a bad score

I gave this a reasonable score. I don't remember when that went up though...
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#6 Jaz

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 02:21 PM

I also completely agree.
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#7 Koopa18

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 02:36 PM

yeah.. its all been said and done in another topic.

Hes a Douche bla bla bla.

I think its stupid that people who are in their 20s or 30s will play a game designed for children and then complain about it and give it a bad score

I gave this a reasonable score. I don't remember when that went up though...


yeah, i wasnt meaning anything in particular, especially not NZG, but it definitely happens.
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#8 peterc

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 02:40 PM

Oh yeah, I found the other topic, thanks.

Just to be clear though,I'm not saying he should have given it a high score BECAUSE the other game sites gave it a good score. I'm merely mentioning the fact in order to contrast a GOOD review, which engages with what the game is trying to do, rather than a BAD review which does not.

But, yah - it's a matter of opinion, I guess to a large extent, I suppose such a rant was a bit out of order... It is only one review, but I'm keen to see more success on 3rd party games and seeing the metacritic score drop is somewhat frustrating.
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#9 Koopa18

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 02:44 PM

i think that games should be reviewed by at least 2 - 3 staff members...

that way if ONE person hates it, we know its not or everyone

if one person LOVES it we know it might be worth a shot

if EVERYONE hates it it most likely sucks

and so on.
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#10 Munkah

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 02:53 PM

yeah.. its all been said and done in another topic.

Hes a Douche bla bla bla.

I think its stupid that people who are in their 20s or 30s will play a game designed for children and then complain about it and give it a bad score

I gave this a reasonable score. I don't remember when that went up though...


yeah, i wasnt meaning anything in particular, especially not NZG, but it definitely happens.

I remember when N64 Gamer gave Perfect Dark a 101/100... Games are always getting a varity of scores across different websites, it's all down to how the reviewer looks at it.
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#11 peterc

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 02:55 PM

I would like to see a female reviewer, particularly for games that might be aimed at both sexes equally. My girlfriend, for example, considers Endless Ocean to be the best game she's ever played and she's played all the top rated wii games too... Not that all women feel the same, but I do think they have a different approach to games than guys tend to.
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#12 Koopa18

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 02:58 PM

yeah.. its all been said and done in another topic.

Hes a Douche bla bla bla.

I think its stupid that people who are in their 20s or 30s will play a game designed for children and then complain about it and give it a bad score

I gave this a reasonable score. I don't remember when that went up though...


yeah, i wasnt meaning anything in particular, especially not NZG, but it definitely happens.

I remember when N64 Gamer gave Perfect Dark a 101/100... Games are always getting a varity of scores across different websites, it's all down to how the reviewer looks at it.


haha i remember that. i was f**kd off because it got a better score than Goldeneye and Mario 64.

i feel PD was undeserving of 101%, but i never played it much.
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#13 Munkah

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 03:18 PM

I would like to see a female reviewer

We have four.
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#14 Donutta

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 03:44 PM

Well, I was on metacritic today, and noticed Endless Ocean had dropped a percentage point, and I thought: gee whiz, what kind of ignorant idiot gave it a low score. And low behold... it was none other than NZ gamer. Being a NZer myself I felt somewhat compelled to leave a comment...

So here goes:


Me too...

Endless Ocean has been gathering excellent reviews from virtually every professional games magazine/website, praising its presentation, graphics, atmosphere and style. 8/10 from IGN; 88/100 from NgamerUK, 8/10 from 1up, 75% from palgn etc etc Here's the difference between them, and the odd idiot who gives it a low score: they ACTUALLY engage with the game on the level of what it's trying to achieve. I'm not going to go in to all the reasons why it's a good game, you can go and check it out for yourselves.


Well for starters, ad hominem attacks isn't the best way to start your argument. That said, I've said time and time again that just because Endless Ocean is aimed at a target market doesn't mean that it should have a free pass. While I myself can't comment on other reviewers' work, I wonder how many of them were second guessing the audience. I wondered if I was being too harsh on Endless Ocean, so I got everyone else in my flat to play it -- including my girlfriend, who I live with. Most of these gamers are the "blue ocean" demographic that loves to play Wii Sports, Wii Play, etc and they all found Endless Ocean dull and devoid of fun as well.

But matters of taste aside, there can be no doubt that Endless Ocean IS graphically very attractive for the wii - the animations in particular are excellent, and the fact that Liam O'Connor gives it a 3 out of ten is, by any standards, unreasonable.


I had to LOL at this. What animations were graphically excellent? The part where the chick is stroking the penguin and her hand isn't even making contact with it? Super Mario Galaxy shows what the Wii can do, so there is no excuse for Endless Ocean's technical graphics.

Now, normally I wouldn't care, but the Wii has been having a rough time with its 3rd party games, in part because of poor reviewers who are unable to engage with games that try to do something different. It's a real pity, and a personal embarassment to me that NZGamer is showing itself to be on the forefront of ignorance in this regard. There's only one review on the metacritic list that goes lower than NZGamers. Take a look at the comments people have attached to that one and you'll see the level of feeling from people about bad reviewing in this regard.


Endless Ocean is a first-party game. :evil: What I really, really love though is that Arika's two previous crappy scuba diving games were panned and nobody gave a sh*t then. I guess it's because they were on the PlayStation 2.

Next time, why not try and ACTUALLY engage with the game on the level of what it's trying to achieve. Otherwise it's like rating a romantic film based on whether it's a successful action adventure.

Rant off.


Well, there are two ways of looking at this. Firstly, you might say that it's unreasonable to expect a site for gamers to recommend a game intended for non-gamers (or whatever). It's like sending the latest chick flick to FHM and then moaning when they pan it. Secondly, you might say, as I do, that Endless Ocean was looked at for what it was and that it's just crap. Seven people who played it, including myself, said so, and that was reflected in the review. There's not really much more to say on the topic.
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#15 djkicks

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 03:45 PM

Review scores don't really mean anything and are pretty useless since there is no way of keeping the scoring consistent between reviewers. When deciding a score you might as well just throw the game disc like a Frisbee and give it a score based on how many metres it lands away from you.
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#16 temungbean

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 04:19 PM

It's amazing how many people live their gaming lives by reviews these days. Does it really matter if a game gets a low score or not? As long as you like it there is no need to give a s***. I've enjoyed games that have gotten low scores before, and hated games that got 9-10 out of 10. It's down to personal preference. Reviews are widely based on the opinions of the reviewer, so of course their opinion is going to differ from others. There is no law saying someone can't give a game a s*** review, just suck it up and accept it.
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#17 peterc

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 04:23 PM

Donutta,

It is a third party developed game, Nintendo is the publisher.

So what if the previous Arika games were widely panned and no one gave a sh*t? This is a totally different scenerio where a game is widely praised by most respected reviewers, except for the odd review here and there which IMHO have been poorly conceived opinions.

I personally feel the animations of the fish are top notch, there's a lot of people that agree with me on that one. Does everyone HAVE to agree? Not really, but when you point out graphical problems by typing rubbish like: ' The part where the chick is stroking the penguin and her hand isn't even making contact with it?' I mean: huh? First up, it's a disembodied hand like a pointer really more than a realistic attempt at a hand physically touching. It's like saying the mouse arrow pointer icon for an RTS doesn't look like it's really touching the soldiers when you click on them.

This is the kind of thing I mean when I suggest that you've failed to address the game on the level of what it's trying to achieve.

There's a difference between second guessing an audience and actually considering what people might be wanting from a game when they buy something like this when giving it a score.

As for the above comment: yes, I understand people have different opinions. I don't see what's so terrible on calling something if you think it's BS.

Anyway, I guess it comes down to I think Donutta's taste is pretty poor, and I'd imagine he feels the same about mine. I guess we'll both get over it.
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#18 Mr.Deflok

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 04:33 PM

It is a third party developed game, Nintendo is the publisher.

Being published by Nintendo makes it first party. Third party is when both the publisher and developer are independant of the console-making company.
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#19 peterc

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 04:43 PM

Not according to wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia....party_developer

Arika are not owned by nintendo. They also make games for other platforms/publishers, so they can't even be counted as second party.
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#20 Donutta

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 04:49 PM

I mean: huh? First up, it's a disembodied hand like a pointer really more than a realistic attempt at a hand physically touching. It's like saying the mouse arrow pointer icon for an RTS doesn't look like it's really touching the soldiers when you click on them.


Yeah, you're not really understanding.

This is the kind of thing I mean when I suggest that you've failed to address the game on the level of what it's trying to achieve.


No, I did. It's just crap. If you read the review you'll see that.

Anyway, I guess it comes down to I think Donutta's taste is pretty poor, and I'd imagine he feels the same about mine. I guess we'll both get over it.


Pretty much.
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