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Micro Transactions and Lootboxes! It gets worse?!?!


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#41 cortez72

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 09:46 AM

Stuff have put up an interesting opinion piece about loot boxes and gambling:

https://i.stuff.co.n...fun-or-gambling
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#42 MonkeyMan

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:07 PM

Stuff have put up an interesting opinion piece about loot boxes and gambling:

https://i.stuff.co.n...fun-or-gambling

That was actually a good read. Love the discussional vibe rather than the anger you mostly get when talking about such hot topics.

 

It might of been in here actually but I read someone say loot boxes are very similar to trading cards which have been around forever and aren't considered gambling and are definitely targeted at kids and that has kinda stuck with me. Like if we are going to regulate loot boxes are we going to regulate trading cards as well? that's definitely a deep rabbit hole to be diving down.


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#43 cortez72

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:52 PM

I guess it depends on the media in question. Books, for example have no age restrictions, but movies do. They both offer entertainment, yet a book full of profanity doesn’t come with a warning- where a movie do.

I think developers/publishers know they are only just walking on the right side of the law. After all, why do you have to buy in game credit to buy a loot box? I believe it’s because directly paying dollars for a loot box is too close to gambling, so they create a stop gap- you had to buy credits which don’t have monetary value, then buy the box.
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#44 drunk_monk

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 02:02 PM

I guess it depends on the media in question. Books, for example have no age restrictions, but movies do. They both offer entertainment, yet a book full of profanity doesn’t come with a warning- where a movie do.

I think developers/publishers know they are only just walking on the right side of the law. After all, why do you have to buy in game credit to buy a loot box? I believe it’s because directly paying dollars for a loot box is too close to gambling, so they create a stop gap- you had to buy credits which don’t have monetary value, then buy the box.

 

I don't think its because of the gambling, I think its because its easier to sell currency, and therefore lootboxes with a different currency.

 

If you buy 10 gems for $5, 20 gems for $6 or 4000 gems for $50, the $50 is a steal.

 

When looking at the loot-boxes:

40 gems for a small crate, 150 for a legendary crate, its easier to sip through said currency.

 

Extreme examples to make a point.  The more you muddy the actual cost with the thing you're selling, the easier it is to make people burn through their fake currency, that they bought with real world currency.


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#45 AdamC

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 02:15 PM

They sell seperate currencies so that you have to buy a pack of 500 virtual currency to buy a 450 costing item, but then you feel that you have 50 currency sitting there that you are wasting if you don’t buy something else.
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#46 cortez72

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 02:30 PM

Both good points. Adam your example is like packs of hotdogs and hotdog buns. Incidently, EA lost 2.5% of their shares last week. That equates to hundreds of millions. While there has been an arguement that the cost of game development can exceed a $100 million, there is proof that one game with aggressive secondary sales aspirations can cost far more than the development.
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#47 iLythium

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 04:39 PM

The more you muddy the actual cost with the thing you're selling, the easier it is to make people burn through their fake currency, that they bought with real world currency.

 

Basically the reason Xbox used to have Microsoft points for digital purchases. That was the worst!


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#48 drunk_monk

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 05:41 PM


The more you muddy the actual cost with the thing you're selling, the easier it is to make people burn through their fake currency, that they bought with real world currency.


Basically the reason Xbox used to have Microsoft points for digital purchases. That was the worst!

Yea I refused to buy digitally when that mess was in place as it drove me mental.
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#49 I3ridgeI3urner

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 11:51 AM

https://youtu.be/PTLFNlu2N_M

 

This takes an investigative approach to the topic and dispels a number of myths regarding the role of Overwatch, the cost of game development, the financial stability of EA.  An eye-opener. 


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#50 ChieftaiNZ

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 08:01 AM

"Oh Triple AAA devs need Microtransactions and loot boxes to generate money to give us the Free Content updates!"

 

RISING STORM 2 VIETNAM DEV's LAUNCH AUSTRALIAN CONTENT UPDATE TOMORROW FOR FREE WITHOUT MICROTRANSACTIONS IN THE GAME

 

 

Cosmetics DLC added in game in next update, but only 1 item is exclusive to it. The rest can be unlocked via normal gameplay.


Edited by ChieftaiNZ, 28 November 2017 - 08:04 AM.

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#51 Syn-Ryn

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:26 AM

"Oh Triple AAA devs need Microtransactions and loot boxes to generate money to give us the Free Content updates!"

 

 

 

...meanwhile in Tripwires other major title


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#52 ost

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 05:07 PM

 

It might of been in here actually but I read someone say loot boxes are very similar to trading cards which have been around forever and aren't considered gambling and are definitely targeted at kids and that has kinda stuck with me. Like if we are going to regulate loot boxes are we going to regulate trading cards as well? that's definitely a deep rabbit hole to be diving down.

 

 

Nothing like trading cards. Be mindful who is making arguments, especially when it comes to comparisons.


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#53 drunk_monk

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 06:17 PM



It might of been in here actually but I read someone say loot boxes are very similar to trading cards which have been around forever and aren't considered gambling and are definitely targeted at kids and that has kinda stuck with me. Like if we are going to regulate loot boxes are we going to regulate trading cards as well? that's definitely a deep rabbit hole to be diving down.


Nothing like trading cards. Be mindful who is making arguments, especially when it comes to comparisons.

And make sure you expose yourself to a wide spread of views.

Loot boxes are more similar to trading cards than gambling.

Trading cards you open. Sometimes you get garbage, sometimes you get Good stuff or rare stuff. And the more specific the thing you want, the more likely you are to waste your money.

But without the physical objects, it seems logical it would tap into the problem gambling addicts have where you can just keep tapping and lose a lot of money trying to hit the jackpot.

So I think you can regulate Loot boxes without regulating trading cards.

Plus Loot boxes don't always give the option of trading shut you don't want for shut you do.
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#54 ZombieRawkMachine

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 06:48 PM

Plus grabbing of box of booster backs = a certain amount of good cards rares and the like. Its a little more straight up then say an EA run computer code that they can change on the fly which to me is more like crane games and the like at arcades which all have formulas like x/y x prize = profit, but even they it is averagely 1 in 20 games where everything works perfectly.


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#55 drunk_monk

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 07:01 PM

Plus grabbing of box of booster backs = a certain amount of good cards rares and the like. Its a little more straight up then say an EA run computer code that they can change on the fly which to me is more like crane games and the like at arcades which all have formulas like x/y x prize = profit, but even they it is averagely 1 in 20 games where everything works perfectly.


Yea so the physical packs can have the same issue. But as you say with code, they can change the odds on a whim and how would they be accountable?

At least a consumer organisation can buy 10 boxes of trading cards and present the odds they see. Digital versions could be totally changed on a whim to avoid being in trouble.
Im pretty sure in China they regulated that odds HAVE to be disclosed for loot boxes which is a step in the right direction but I still feel there should be more done.
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#56 ZombieRawkMachine

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 07:23 PM

I think the bigger picture with loot boxes isn't so much the Is it gambling debate it seems to be stuck on but the predatory nature of the beast, I mean when they are just there to add to the experience no one really bats an eye lid. Sweet its doable without paying extra but paying can enhance the experience. But if a game is designed to be a dull as f*** grind to basically beat you into submission for them...

 

It's not as though its a first for EA lets be honest here, remember that lil mobile version of Dungeon Keeper.


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#57 drunk_monk

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 07:31 PM

I think the bigger picture with loot boxes isn't so much the Is it gambling debate it seems to be stuck on but the predatory nature of the beast, I mean when they are just there to add to the experience no one really bats an eye lid. Sweet its doable without paying extra but paying can enhance the experience. But if a game is designed to be a dull as f*** grind to basically beat you into submission for them...

It's not as though its a first for EA lets be honest here, remember that lil mobile version of Dungeon Keeper.


I think the redesign of games to encourage spending like Battlefront 2 has definitely been acknowledged and is feared by many.

But I think the gambling aspect, and it's predatory nature like gambling, is the only thing people can address now.

And if the ambiguity of loot boxes are made transparent, things like crap decorates or what objects on the boxes do, it will help make insidious practices more transparent and may gelp sway game buyers.
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#58 ost

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 08:57 AM

 

 


It might of been in here actually but I read someone say loot boxes are very similar to trading cards which have been around forever and aren't considered gambling and are definitely targeted at kids and that has kinda stuck with me. Like if we are going to regulate loot boxes are we going to regulate trading cards as well? that's definitely a deep rabbit hole to be diving down.


Nothing like trading cards. Be mindful who is making arguments, especially when it comes to comparisons.

And make sure you expose yourself to a wide spread of views.

Loot boxes are more similar to trading cards than gambling.

Trading cards you open. Sometimes you get garbage, sometimes you get Good stuff or rare stuff. And the more specific the thing you want, the more likely you are to waste your money.

But without the physical objects, it seems logical it would tap into the problem gambling addicts have where you can just keep tapping and lose a lot of money trying to hit the jackpot.

So I think you can regulate Loot boxes without regulating trading cards.

Plus Loot boxes don't always give the option of trading shut you don't want for shut you do.

 

 

So, more like buying a video game for $100 only to find there's a trading card game inside, although unlike trading cards you don't know how many cards there are to collect or the value of each card. And you can't trade the ones you don't want with your friends. 


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#59 drunk_monk

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 09:47 AM

So, more like buying a video game for $100 only to find there's a trading card game inside, although unlike trading cards you don't know how many cards there are to collect or the value of each card. And you can't trade the ones you don't want with your friends. 

 

 

Does every trading card pack have all of that information on the outside of the packet?  And does every trading card set have all of that information readily available?  Such as value of each card?

Also I don't know if in these games they have lists or not, do you know?  Can you provide sources?

 

Of course they aren't exactly the same, that's why its "like" trading cards and not "trading cards".

 

In the same way its not gambling because you don't put money down, and then expect money to come back if you win, and nothing if you lose.

 

But there are similarities, which is what people are discussing, not how it is exactly like what trading cards are now, or it is exactly what gambling is now.


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#60 ost

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 10:20 AM

There's no moral or legal issues with trading cards though. There are with gambling, hence why that similarity is worth several countries and US states investigating.

 

And the equation doesn't have to be money = money to be considered gambling. 


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