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Applying to Board of Review for a review of the Gal*Gun ban


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#41 emetic

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 10:36 PM

 

 

Not that clued up. "Why aren't you calling for those games to be banned? I'll tell you. Because you're a hypocrite."

Nobody in the thread had called for it to be banned.

That could be read between the lines of "I think the ban is warranted", "children need to be protected" or just the conspicuous lack of protest at the ban when there would've been an uproar if a popular shooter was banned.

I don't think it's fair to compare this to an arcade shooter.

 

Yeh in Gal Gun you're not killing anyone (which is a worse crime than buzzing them with sex lasers, just saying), it's obviously unrealistic with no graphic violence but is heavy on the creepy schoolboy/girl fantasy elements so it's not an apples with apples comparison, but nevertheless this one game got hit with a ban and all the people who normally cry out about other instances have said absolutely nothing.

 

Anyway the spinoff article above (thanks Drunkmonk) is written up pretty well. I never remember if the Spinoff is like the Civilian or the Onion until I'm near the end of the article and start weighing up how serious it was though.


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#42 emetic

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 10:41 PM

Also WaltzIT, can you please advise why you had nothing to say on the NZG article about the subject?

 

...

 

Oh for my two cents on that, I don't like posting on the main site because if you later suffer poster's regret or realise you got trolled or were tired and retarded or whatever you can't edit or delete it later. I consciously only post worthless throwaway comments there because I've been caught out trying to start arguments then realising I was a dick and not being able to edit it away. :karate:  Actually I think I myself typed a bunch about the Gal Gun ban article then deleted it instead of posting. :thumbsup:  I'm smart sometimes.

But not today.


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#43 woollywol

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 11:02 PM

You know one thing this whole thing has made me curious about is how much has this helped the game get noticed. As I've seen this be reported in other sites around the world as well so does make you wonder as honestly if it had just been ignored it probably would have very quickly faded into obscurity after being on the front page of releases for day before being buried in the daily release of crap that comes on steam and being replaced by the hot new release or preorder on the PS store. By banning it though it's actually brought it to attention. Hell the this brings up the whole Manhunt thing again when that got banned here and tons of people went "what this game has been banned? Why? What's it done? I must find out!" Which resulted in numerous copies of it being imported into the country or pirated because people wanted to know why. Does make me wonder if the same has happened here with this.

 

Interesting question ... but I don't really believe that whatever happens in NZ is much more than a curiosity for other regions and countries. It would, though, bring the game to the attention of a few Kiwis who might not otherwise have heard of it, for sure. But since it's such a very niche type of game, I would hazard a guess that only a tiny number of gamers would even consider getting hold of it. And importing it - with the ban now in place - would be a very risky undertaking; Customs now have much more fine-grained protocols and would almost certainly detect any such illegal import.

 

The game has actually sold very well for the publisher PQube - so far 100K copies worldwide. I know it's stayed in the UK's Top Ten Vita games listings for quite some time. I don't know how well it's done in the US. It's rated 'M' for Mature (17+) by the ESRB there.


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#44 Coddfish

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 12:10 PM

Believe it or not, I don't think the sexual element of the game is what appeals to people. It's very suggestive, but exaggerated to a point of ridiculousness and very self-aware. That's where the appeal is, really - it's a funny, clever pastiche of hentai and erotic games. It's also a good, well-made rail shooter underneath all that, and its an interesting way of repurposing shooter mechanics, so the appeal of the game goes beyond just titillation. 

 

But that's not even really what this is about. Most people aren't going to like it, and that's fine - it's a niche game for a niche audience. 

 

My main concern with the ban is that it shuts down any chance for informed discussion on the game and how it approaches themes of sexualisation, whether good or bad. People can't play it, so people can only see snippets in trailers etc.; you can't make any sort of informed critique of a book by reading the blurb, and a game is no different.

 

People don't have to like it, people don't have to play it, and it's right to be restricted, but there's so much value in being able to critique, analyse, and learn from this game (and any other work of art) that's lost when it's banned. If the mere availability of the work would be demonstrably harmful to society - e.g. hate speech, incitement to violence - then the costs that come with a ban are worth paying, but I don't think that Gal*Gun comes close to that. Thus my attempts to seek a review. 


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#45 MadCant

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 05:17 PM

A few things I thought I'd add my 10c on...

 

Children need protecting.

  

As a father (I wouldn't normally write that, but feel that for some reason this adds a level of weight in this conversation, as I cannot compare the level of love & concern I have for my children to anything else in my life - perhaps this adds bias..?), I completely agree.  However, I'm not sure that banning this title will in any way protect a single child from anything.  The irony (as eluded to earlier by others both here & in the original article) is that if anything, Gal Gun's banning has created a level of awareness for a title that I for one wouldn't otherwise have known about.

  

I read a suggestion in here about customs simply blocking this... maybe I misread it, but if not - have you not heard of illegal downloads?  How could NZ Customs possibly counter that?!  They could stop some physical copies coming in, but even then, the likelihood they'd stop all imports of banned physical media is slim to none.

  

Another argument in here is that millions of people play (as an example) GTAV daily but don't as a result go about blowing people's heads off with guns, or mowing down ped's with their vehicles, etc, etc IRL... fair enough, but here's a thought... how many peeps do you reckon would have jerked off to their character having a lap dance in the White Unicorn? - while I have no cold hard facts, I'd be willing to bet there's more than a handful that have.  We are far more connected in games than most would admit to or even realise.  So many games toy with our emotions in so many ways.  In many situations we don't simply relate/empathise to a character (as you would in a movie or TV show), in many instances you take on & become the character you're playing.  Who here knows somebody who has destroyed a controller/monitor/whatever in a fit of rage over a game..?  Or lost their sh*t at somebody outside the game environment due to a game?  Now, tell me games don't have an effect on your mental state, or real life for that matter - of course they do.  Is it far-fetched to think that playing a subjective game (no matter how vague, corny, or comedic) could stimulate sexual emotions in paedo's, possibly even triggering them do something they previously had not intended on doing..?

  

Something to consider... whether right or wrong, I am of the opinion that child porn' (also snuff porn, etc) should be banned/illegal.  So I ask you to contemplate: at what point does paedophilia become banned?  To enforce an opinion such as mine, one has to draw a line in the sand at some point, though how does one easily & clearly define a point of acceptability?  Surely there has to be a bit of a grey area surrounding this & at what point censorship should apply - given the subject at hand (not specifically this game), wouldn't all but paedo's prefer for our censorship to err a little toward the side of caution..?

  

So far as this game goes, I haven't played it & don't have an opinion either way.  I'm sick of the nanny state bull we put up with daily, but I'm not sure if this censorship is/isn't part of that.  More than anything, I'm really interested to see how this process plays out.


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#46 Dvst8u

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 06:29 PM

A few things I thought I'd add my 10c on...

 

Children need protecting.

  

As a father (I wouldn't normally write that, but feel that for some reason this adds a level of weight in this conversation, as I cannot compare the level of love & concern I have for my children to anything else in my life - perhaps this adds bias..?), I completely agree.  However, I'm not sure that banning this title will in any way protect a single child from anything.  The irony (as eluded to earlier by others both here & in the original article) is that if anything, Gal Gun's banning has created a level of awareness for a title that I for one wouldn't otherwise have known about.

  

I read a suggestion in here about customs simply blocking this... maybe I misread it, but if not - have you not heard of illegal downloads?  How could NZ Customs possibly counter that?!  They could stop some physical copies coming in, but even then, the likelihood they'd stop all imports of banned physical media is slim to none.

  

Another argument in here is that millions of people play (as an example) GTAV daily but don't as a result go about blowing people's heads off with guns, or mowing down ped's with their vehicles, etc, etc IRL... fair enough, but here's a thought... how many peeps do you reckon would have jerked off to their character having a lap dance in the White Unicorn? - while I have no cold hard facts, I'd be willing to bet there's more than a handful that have.  We are far more connected in games than most would admit to or even realise.  So many games toy with our emotions in so many ways.  In many situations we don't simply relate/empathise to a character (as you would in a movie or TV show), in many instances you take on & become the character you're playing.  Who here knows somebody who has destroyed a controller/monitor/whatever in a fit of rage over a game..?  Or lost their sh*t at somebody outside the game environment due to a game?  Now, tell me games don't have an effect on your mental state, or real life for that matter - of course they do.  Is it far-fetched to think that playing a subjective game (no matter how vague, corny, or comedic) could stimulate sexual emotions in paedo's, possibly even triggering them do something they previously had not intended on doing..?

  

Something to consider... whether right or wrong, I am of the opinion that child porn' (also snuff porn, etc) should be banned/illegal.  So I ask you to contemplate: at what point does paedophilia become banned?  To enforce an opinion such as mine, one has to draw a line in the sand at some point, though how does one easily & clearly define a point of acceptability?  Surely there has to be a bit of a grey area surrounding this & at what point censorship should apply - given the subject at hand (not specifically this game), wouldn't all but paedo's prefer for our censorship to err a little toward the side of caution..?

  

So far as this game goes, I haven't played it & don't have an opinion either way.  I'm sick of the nanny state bull we put up with daily, but I'm not sure if this censorship is/isn't part of that.  More than anything, I'm really interested to see how this process plays out.

 

man , you do it once and it haunts you for life , i told you that in confidence mad


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#47 Unfathomable-Ruination

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:26 AM

I was tempted to try and get Manhunt rated as well, it's been over a decade since that was banned.


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#48 Meanvision

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 05:18 PM

I was tempted to try and get Manhunt rated as well, it's been over a decade since that was banned.


Manhunt is pretty tame compared to stuff these days; I had it on Xbox I think not sure how I managed to get a copy;

Edited by Meanvision, 21 March 2017 - 06:15 PM.

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#49 Unfathomable-Ruination

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:32 PM

 

I was tempted to try and get Manhunt rated as well, it's been over a decade since that was banned.


Manhunt is pretty game compared to stuff these days; I had it on Xbox I think not sure how I managed to get a copy;

 

 

Yeah, it makes no sense. A lot has changed over the years in regards to ratings., and I'm sure that if Rockstar resubmitted it, it would be approved.


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#50 Altom905

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 11:08 AM

I know nothing about this game, but the chief censor doesn't ban many things, and i have trust in the process and judgement calls by someone doing a tough job like his.
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#51 emetic

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 07:15 PM

It sounds like a pretty sweet job to me, to be fair.
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#52 drunk_monk

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 10:30 PM

It sounds like a pretty sweet job to me, to be fair.


I dunno. One would think they have seen some horrible sh*t to confirm it needs banning. Probably more so in film and print.

I struggled through hostel and will never watch hostel 2. I can't imagine watching that crap and having to weigh up ban vs r18.
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#53 emetic

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 11:20 PM

I suppose yeh, but you'd be in critical movie reviewer mode. You're not investing emotionally and letting yourself get caught up in thw story like for entertainment, you'd be more clinical about it. I reckon anyway. Like pausing and writing notes and stuff. Like.
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#54 Altom905

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 06:16 AM

It sounds like a pretty sweet job to me, to be fair.


Actually the chief censor works closely with police , and reviews aledged child porn and other potential illegal video footage before charges are laid.
Not something I'd think is a "sweet job"
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#55 drunk_monk

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 02:02 PM

Read an opinion piece on the subject matter that made me think of it a different way.

http://www.digitally...r-perverts.html

 

Prior to reading it my opinion swayed more towards, if its a game pervs like, who cares.

 

But this is an opinion piece that swayed me a lot.  It makes the great comparison that people who play murder based, or violent games, aren't necessarily violent people, or murderers waiting for an opportunity.

The reality is its a gameplay device, that doesn't always reflect our own ambitions or thoughts, when I play Uncharted I don't enjoy it because I would like to kill a large number of people while hunting for a treasure.  

 

Or someone playing a hunting sim may not want to hunt animals in the wild, or killing animals to make their bullet satchel bigger to make it easier to kill people.

 

There is a clear disconnect between gameplay and our own desires if that makes sense.

 

So a game with "pervy" content doesn't necessarily mean someone wants to be a perve but may enjoy the gameplay on a basic level, and no deeper than that, and enjoy other elements of the games.

 

Some food for thought.


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#56 tuftsdude

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 02:53 PM

-snip-

You should write a blog, I'll give you 5 stars ;)
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#57 iludez

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 04:22 PM

To be fair though monk, the stuff in most of those games are a side part of the games. The games you mention have interesting characters, deep stories, open world gameplay. Etc etc

These games cater to a very nice audience, who would more then likely watch those weird pervy animes, and like that sort of content so while they may not be a creep it's so hard to rationalize why you'd want to play these types of games. If they actually we're anything other then perv Sims I could maybe understand.
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#58 drunk_monk

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 04:44 PM

yea I get that Ludez, but what games like that do you have enough experience at to say if it is lacking there?  (not taking a dig, genuine query for insight)

 

Because you could easily cut together some clips of a shooter to make it look like none of that existed.  Or more so COD, or Battlefield online aren't any of those things, they are fun  killing games where you literally take turns at killing each other over and over again.

 

I'm not persecuting those things, as I have had a lot of fun with online shooters over the years, but if you paint different objectionable material with the same brush as we apply to killing games, it becomes a lot more blurred.

 

An example of games I am somewhat familiar with is Hyperdimension Neptunia.  If I was cynically looking at those games I could see them as making the point that its just creep material.  They say such dumb pervy things, wear skimpy clothes, etc, etc, etc.  

 

But in context of the obvious satire they are just dumb funny games taking the piss out of the game industry and those other "pervy" games too.


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