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#5541 drunk_monk

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 02:40 PM

So you allowed your own perception to be changed by a country who suffers from heavy tall poppy syndrome and mass amounts of casual racism, rather than sticking to a holiday you had created joy in?

Interesting.

Pretty much. Every year the media, the protests, pro-maori vs anti-maori fighting, all that bullshit got to me more and more until I stopped giving a sh*t anymore.

When Waitangi Day becomes about celebrating the great parts of NZs history, culture and what's great about us as a nation now I'll engage again, but while people insist on dragging us down because of the bad parts of history, which none of us were involved in, I'm out.

Also everywhere is casually racist, I hate the NZ is casually racist comments as it implies we are worse than everywhere else. The definition of racism that is commonly used where certain races can't be the victims of racism is casually racist as f***.

And while cultural appropriation is seen as racism, I'm also out. It's the reason that while I'm trying to teach my boy Maori words along side English words so he takes pride and appreciates NZs culture and history, I won't speak a single Maori word outside of the home. I don't want some ass hole to accuse me of cultural appropriation/casual racism/next buzz word, and it being spread on social media with no rite of reply,and in some cases no evidence.

Waitangi Day has changed from one of my favourite days of the year to a day loaded with all of the above and more. Triggered :P

TLDR: probably not worth reading.

Edited by drunk_monk, 13 January 2017 - 02:42 PM.

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#5542 Xenojay

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 03:15 PM

Triggered :P

TLDR: probably not worth reading.

 

GOOD.

 

This is exactly the discussion that should be had.

 

Look, it's good that the casual racism comments come up, because why should we be ignoring simply cause it's every where? Again, it's about change. It's about pointing out to people what's wrong with it. And of course there's racism toward white people! So don't feel like they're excluded.

 

Cultural appropriation for me is the commercialisation of culture with no benefit to them. Feather headpieces are the biggest f**king offenders and example, but of course there's more than that. I don't see how you speaking the language simply cause you may not be white is an issue. Yes, some f**king maori make it impossible to not feel like you're part of the problem, confronting you about why you're speaking OUR tongue, but the majority of the time they don't even have a grasp of the language.

 

I feel like you're scared of social consequence, which in this day and age is f**king terrifying. But the steps you're making, and how you've felt in the past make it sound like you could be a person who could help start changing this.


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#5543 drunk_monk

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 05:06 PM

GOOD.

This is exactly the discussion that should be had.

I agree but find I usually get attacked or just spoken down to in a public forum like this for challenging ideas or asking questions around subjects like racism.

Even as I write this I'm a little apprehensive, despite most of the times I've challenged others views as a way to understand them.

Look, it's good that the casual racism comments come up, because why should we be ignoring simply cause it's every where? Again, it's about change. It's about pointing out to people what's wrong with it.

Totally. I only get annoyed with "NZ has a problem with casual racism" as I feel it intentionally misrepresents the situation despite being technically true.

NZ also has a problem with casual racism or there is casual racism everywhere both represent the situation better in my opinion.
When it's specified at NZ it implies it's an issue especially bad or unique to NZ, which seems like outrage bait used by news sites which is now used by everyone.

And of course there's racism toward white people! So don't feel like they're excluded.

I agree BUT the currently used definition by most is that racism can't be experienced by the racial majority. I.e. If you hate me because of my race it's not racism as I'm in the racial majority and you're in the racial minority.

Just like if I don't include race in how I determine how to treat someone then I'm racist because I'm being colour blind. I have to treat people differently because of their race to not be racist now.

Racism now has so many f***ing caveats it's near impossible to decrypt, it used to be easy. If you held an opinion of someone BECAUSE of their race, good bad or neutral, or considering any race to be superior or inferior, that's racism and it's bad.

Cultural appropriation for me is the commercialisation of culture with no benefit to them. Feather headpieces are the biggest f**king offenders and example, but of course there's more than that. I don't see how you speaking the language simply cause you may not be white is an issue. Yes, some f**king maori make it impossible to not feel like you're part of the problem, confronting you about why you're speaking OUR tongue, but the majority of the time they don't even have a grasp of the language.

When you say commercialism do you mean companies selling stuff?
And when you say with no benefit to them do you mean people of a certain race?
If so I personally object to those views despite me being told I'm racist for it.

I think nobody ever should be entitled to something because of race. I know it happens now and there are issues that are generations deep but feel addressing it on a race basis and not just help every disadvantaged person is wrong.

Like when we talk about systems to help disadvantaged Maori I have an issue with that. If we do things to bring up the bottom 10% then that's great. If Maori disproportionately fill that 10% then they will be disproportionately helped when we help all of the bottom. I think leaving broke white kid behind because despite being born into the same shitty situation he's the wrong skin colour to deserve the same help is wrong as it's racist. And I've been told many times I'm racist for holding that view.

Cultural appropriation is currently used for a white person getting dreads being a racist act because their race doesn't come from a certain continent.

If someone likes dreads they should get them, they shouldn't be limited by their race. That's racism to me, but not what news sites and educated people consider racism.

I feel like you're scared of social consequence, which in this day and age is f**king terrifying. But the steps you're making, and how you've felt in the past make it sound like you could be a person who could help start changing this.

Yea I'm terrified of social consequences in a world where right and wrong changes from week to week with no wiggle room for people who may innocently get it wrong.

It's normal to persecute someone instead of getting all the info like the other side, instead of having conversations and educating.

It's normal now to drag someones name through the dirt via stuff and Facebook instead of asking them if they understood why what they did was wrong or offensive.

Take sir Peter Leitchs thing recently. Everyone has presumed guilt.

It's his word vs hers but her word has more weight for no apparent reason.

His version of events she claims entitlement due to race, her version he claims entitlement due to race. To me the evidence on both sides have the same circumstantial weighting. And as they were drinking think both might be rightor wrong.

Now he's rich so life will move on but imagine being innocent, and trying to get a job with that stuff being Googleable. Plenty of nobodies have appeared on stuff and Facebook for that kind of sh*t.

It seems like more people are more concerned with crying racism and shifting the posts on racism and being victims than actually trying to educate and eliminate racism.

As I say, me wanting to embrace Maori culture and see NZs history as all NZers history, not just the history if your race in the current climate is racist which I think is f***ed up.

Edit: that took so f***ing long to write on my phone, so excuse any errors.

Edited by drunk_monk, 13 January 2017 - 05:41 PM.

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#5544 emetic

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 05:22 PM

Wtf man, why write that all on your phone? That must have taken 2 hours and much irritation.

 

Racism is good.


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#5545 Xenojay

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 05:25 PM

Wtf man, why write that all on your phone? That must have taken 2 hours and much irritation.

 

Racism is good.

 

I used to think this was a serious thread...I see I was wrong...


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#5546 Scuba_Steve

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 05:27 PM

This music video is onto it...

 

People need to stop throwing the 'R' word round & learn what it means!


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#5547 drunk_monk

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 05:37 PM

Wtf man, why write that all on your phone? That must have taken 2 hours and much irritation.


Breaking up quotes on the Web site is a pain in the ass. And I pretty much always use my phone for forums.
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#5548 Xenojay

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 05:51 PM

-snip-
 
Nah, don't worry about me man! I'm here to listen, hence me asking you stuff.
 
Casual Racism is of course a completely commercialized term to generate clicks. It's just racism, but I was using it as the 'latest thing' to try to engage the forums!
 
Experience between racial majority versus minority will always have issues. The majority will always live under one marked impression much like the minority will. Embedded social thought is hard, but again it comes back to the word I say which is 'change'. It always starts with 1, and it might not fix itself this generation, nor the next, and maybe not the next. But it has to start somewhere, right?
 
I'm talking about selling sh*t that doesn't provide any meaningful kick-back for the culture its been appropriated from.
 
As for looks...that's a different subject. If a person wears it because it "looks cool", yet the look is derived from a culture and it has meaning to them, then of course they have right to be offended. Much like when people of Polynesian descent were offended by the 'Tribal' tattoo movement, them clearly being an appropriated form of moko, tatau etc. Those looks aren't just 'cool' to that culture, it has a deeper meaning.
 
And yeah, I get the social thing. 
 
I think the easiest thing with that particular event was to not take sides and listen. But as you say, Social is made for assumptions and who's right, huh!
 
I'm sorry if people have called you racist for how you are embracing our countries deep history! Personally, I think it's very cool! And I think you should keep pushing to be heard and respected in speaking Te Reo! 
 
I'm also sorry for your large mission to type all of that.

Thank you for taking the time to share your points sir! I'd like to think we're both at a place where we've learnt a little about each other, and what we could do moving forward :)
 
 

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#5549 drunk_monk

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 06:24 PM

Nah, don't worry about me man! I'm here to listen, hence me asking you stuff.

Which is cool and hence worth taking the time to type out responses. Not everyone is this receptive though.
 

Experience between racial majority versus minority will always have issues. The majority will always live under one marked impression much like the minority will. Embedded social thought is hard, but again it comes back to the word I say which is 'change'. It always starts with 1, and it might not fix itself this generation, nor the next, and maybe not the next. But it has to start somewhere, right?

Totally but the changes I've seen in the last few years are terrifying. Not in the good ways.

I'm talking about selling sh*t that doesn't provide any meaningful kick-back for the culture its been appropriated from.


There is a messy grey area here.

Like the Moana costumes. That being deemed cultural appropriation is a bad thing for movies like that as Disney isn't allowed to merchandise those characters like they can white ones. That may mean white characters are more profitable and that's not good.
 

As for looks...that's a different subject. If a person wears it because it "looks cool", yet the look is derived from a culture and it has meaning to them, then of course they have right to be offended. Much like when people of Polynesian descent were offended by the 'Tribal' tattoo movement, them clearly being an appropriated form of moko, tatau etc. Those looks aren't just 'cool' to that culture, it has a deeper meaning.

I think there is a messy grey area here too.

Culture is being tied too hard to race which is bad (IMO). Multiple cultures can exist in a race and multiple races cam adhere to a culture. I hate the trend of mixing the two.

While I get what your saying here I kinda agree and disagree.

Take dreads for example. I don't think the people currently being offended by white people having dreads adhere to the ancient Egyptian culture. But the rules change as needed.

And Tribal tattoos, I remember an old flatmate had a Maori Tribal tat (he was racially Maori). He had no interest in Maori culture, just had the tat because it was cool.
How is that different to a white dude getting one because it's cool?

It shouldn't be different but it is because that's the way the world is changing. and that's change I don't wanna see.

 

An I mean how is that different from people wanting to learn Te Reo because it sounds cool.  Or making bone carvings because they look cool, etc.

 

I remember before this sh*t started poisoning my views as I got older, having total separation of Maori the race and Maori the culture and loving the culture.  I loved and had Powhiri necklaces, I loved making bone fishhook carvings at school.  Things like the taniwha design I always thought was a NZ thing, not a Maori thing.  Maori legends were my historical legends, these were stories told by our ancestors.  But these kinds of attitudes are changing to be racist views and that I object to strongly, and I suspect when I'm an old fart, having those views will be like the racist stories every one of our grandparents told.

 

I'm sorry if people have called you racist for how you are embracing our countries deep history! Personally, I think it's very cool! And I think you should keep pushing to be heard and respected in speaking Te Reo!


Just to be clear my Te Reo sucks. I'm trying to learn it as I teach my boy it and English. Slowly as sh*t.


Edited by drunk_monk, 13 January 2017 - 06:44 PM.

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#5550 Gonzala

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Posted 13 January 2017 - 09:32 PM

German shepherd gets rammed after sheep get spooked by vehicle   :lol:

 

http://www.dailymail...pooked-car.html


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#5551 jtbthatsme

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 08:45 AM

Jimmy Snuka the Superfly famous Hall of Famer from the WWF/ WWE has passed away.....sad but apparently he was also (until a few days ago) under investigation for murder.....great wrestler in his day though.


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#5552 Killjoy

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 10:34 AM

That sucks, I used to do his superfly finisher on the trampoline as a kid while pretend wrestling friends.  RIP Jimmy.


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